They are approaching this latest round of negotiations with the same mindset that has doomed previous efforts — not to reach a settlement, but to ensure the continuation of the war
You must recall Thomas Russia invaded Ukraine. It took awhile but they now control much of of the ethnic (Ukrainian) Russian speaking central and eastern regions. My suggestion is have a plebiscite and have the regions now under Rusdian control want to be a Russian territory or a Ukrainian Rusdian speaking territory with DEI full Ukrainian rights and protection. And of course no NATO. Cease for immediate and no movement of troops while negotiations proceed. Stop the killing Thomas should be top priority along side negotiations.
When did these plebiscites occur? Was it post the 2014 coop when the right wing Nazi faction bullied the elected President out of office and installed their guy. Prior to this precipitice event was there more harmony between the east and west in Ukraine. *they tolerated each other and had faith in the election process....all citizens with equal rights. If Ukrainian russians felt more s3cure and another plebiscite voted on would we get the same results. Russian speaking Ukrainians I suspect are proud nationalist Ukrainians more so than proud Russians.
It's more gut instinct the above statement. Historian I'm not Thomas. But you probable figured that out 🇩🇪
some of us have been following this more closely the past 10 - 15 years... these details do matter and unfortunately they are kept out of the western press propaganda spin... clearly you haven't followed this closely..
1996-1999: Bill Clinton campaigned on expanding NATO east of united Germany (Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland) – joined NATO in 1999 - violating Secretary of State James Baker’s pledge to Gorbachev not to expand NATO “on inch to the east.”
November 2002: NATO invited seven more Eastern European countries to join: Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia.
April 2008: NATO’s Bucharest summit. George W. Bush put Ukraine and Georgia on an “immediate path to NATO.”
22 Feb 2014: With Sochi Winter Olympics underway, Team Obama toppled the democratically elected government of Ukraine’s pro-Russian leader Viktor Yanukovych.
2 May 2014: Massacre of Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Odessa by thugs bussed in from Kyiv – triggering the civil war.
17 Dec 2021: Team Biden rejects Putin’s proposed mutual security accords that would have left “neutral” Ukraine intact.
18 Feb 2022: During Winter Olympics in China, Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) documented that Ukraine ramped up cease fire violations along the civil war LOC - from Luhansk to Right-Sector controlled Mariupol.
19 Feb 2022: At the Munich Security Conference, Zelensky said Ukraine will get and deploy nuclear missiles.
20 Feb 2022: On 60 Minutes, on the final day of the Olympics in China, Ukraine’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Dmytro Kuleba said: “Ukraine will never honor the Minsk cease fire.”
21 Feb 2022: Russia captured a Ukrainian soldier, killed five others as they crossed over the border into Rostov, Russia.
Russia recognizes the breakaway Donbass and Luhansk Republics.
24 Feb 2022: Russia launches SMO with 90,000 troops – not a "full scale invasion." Russia intervened to protect the ethnic Russians living in the civil-war-torn Donbass.
Given that the leaders of these so-called Western liberal democracies are averting their eyes from the Israeli genocide in Gaza, they might as well continue to prolong the war in Ukraine… Certainly they have no moral or humanitarian motives. What does puzzle me though, is how this tactic can possibly play to their advantage. Ok they get to save face for having pushed the Ukrainians to fight when peace was still possible in 2022, but the drain on Europe is very apparent and it can only get worse as Russia takes more territory and Ukraine is flattened and humiliated. They have nothing left to give - as Macron just stated - and all their economic sanctions continue to backfire while Russia allies with China and the BRICS countries, slowly but surely bleeding the West into increasingly self-evident decline.
You must recall Thomas Russia invaded Ukraine. It took awhile but they now control much of of the ethnic (Ukrainian) Russian speaking central and eastern regions. My suggestion is have a plebiscite and have the regions now under Rusdian control want to be a Russian territory or a Ukrainian Rusdian speaking territory with DEI full Ukrainian rights and protection. And of course no NATO. Cease for immediate and no movement of troops while negotiations proceed. Stop the killing Thomas should be top priority along side negotiations.
Ciao
Dear comrades:
Refuse Fascism
Oppose oppression
Stop the genocide
There were plebiscites. Crimea and the Donbas chose Russia.
When did these plebiscites occur? Was it post the 2014 coop when the right wing Nazi faction bullied the elected President out of office and installed their guy. Prior to this precipitice event was there more harmony between the east and west in Ukraine. *they tolerated each other and had faith in the election process....all citizens with equal rights. If Ukrainian russians felt more s3cure and another plebiscite voted on would we get the same results. Russian speaking Ukrainians I suspect are proud nationalist Ukrainians more so than proud Russians.
It's more gut instinct the above statement. Historian I'm not Thomas. But you probable figured that out 🇩🇪
Ciao
some of us have been following this more closely the past 10 - 15 years... these details do matter and unfortunately they are kept out of the western press propaganda spin... clearly you haven't followed this closely..
Ok
But you could have answered my inquiry if you are so knowledgeable on Russian/Ukraine history.
Ciao comrade
you could answer your own question too, lol... but it would take a bit of effort..
Will do
Thanks for your help neighbor
Timeline of the War in Ukraine:
NATO expansion: 22 March 1999 to 24 Feb 2022
1996-1999: Bill Clinton campaigned on expanding NATO east of united Germany (Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland) – joined NATO in 1999 - violating Secretary of State James Baker’s pledge to Gorbachev not to expand NATO “on inch to the east.”
November 2002: NATO invited seven more Eastern European countries to join: Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia.
April 2008: NATO’s Bucharest summit. George W. Bush put Ukraine and Georgia on an “immediate path to NATO.”
22 Feb 2014: With Sochi Winter Olympics underway, Team Obama toppled the democratically elected government of Ukraine’s pro-Russian leader Viktor Yanukovych.
2 May 2014: Massacre of Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Odessa by thugs bussed in from Kyiv – triggering the civil war.
17 Dec 2021: Team Biden rejects Putin’s proposed mutual security accords that would have left “neutral” Ukraine intact.
18 Feb 2022: During Winter Olympics in China, Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) documented that Ukraine ramped up cease fire violations along the civil war LOC - from Luhansk to Right-Sector controlled Mariupol.
19 Feb 2022: At the Munich Security Conference, Zelensky said Ukraine will get and deploy nuclear missiles.
20 Feb 2022: On 60 Minutes, on the final day of the Olympics in China, Ukraine’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Dmytro Kuleba said: “Ukraine will never honor the Minsk cease fire.”
21 Feb 2022: Russia captured a Ukrainian soldier, killed five others as they crossed over the border into Rostov, Russia.
Russia recognizes the breakaway Donbass and Luhansk Republics.
24 Feb 2022: Russia launches SMO with 90,000 troops – not a "full scale invasion." Russia intervened to protect the ethnic Russians living in the civil-war-torn Donbass.
Given that the leaders of these so-called Western liberal democracies are averting their eyes from the Israeli genocide in Gaza, they might as well continue to prolong the war in Ukraine… Certainly they have no moral or humanitarian motives. What does puzzle me though, is how this tactic can possibly play to their advantage. Ok they get to save face for having pushed the Ukrainians to fight when peace was still possible in 2022, but the drain on Europe is very apparent and it can only get worse as Russia takes more territory and Ukraine is flattened and humiliated. They have nothing left to give - as Macron just stated - and all their economic sanctions continue to backfire while Russia allies with China and the BRICS countries, slowly but surely bleeding the West into increasingly self-evident decline.
It suggests those arguing the Trump administration represents continuity of agenda are probably correct 👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTM4rY_jYP8
The European leaders are rotten children! The Russians are children who have never been allowed in the sunlight! I don’t care!