Understanding the contemporary Russian mindset and “spirit” through the work of Sergey Karaganov, one of Russia’s most influential (geo)political thinkers
Kari, the second part of Thomas’s article listed a brief summary of the missing seventh point:
7. Global power redistribution: Karaganov highlights the significant shift in global power from the West to rising nations, particularly Russia and China, as one of the major sources of international tension. This shift is causing geopolitical instability and redefining international relations, as the West grapples with losing its long-standing hegemony.
Excellent piece which makes total sense. Russian voices are so much more sane and considered than the impulsive and dangerously infantile thinking of Western leaders especially our American cousins. Arrogance and impunity are the biggest threat to peace and Western leaders almost without exception have these in abundance.
Interesting! I didn't know he had previously been a part of the Trilateral Commission, that makes a lot of sense. And its interesting that he parroted the propaganda of the West's corrupt power structures when he wrote "it also indicates a loss of interest in peaceful and stable development" (the global economic paradigm he's referring to has demonstrably suppressed development in most places) and then when he wrote that the West is "retreating into neo-isolationism" (this is highly likely to be a parroting of current Western power structures assertion that pre WW2 the USA was isolationist, but that does not withstand serious scrutiny and despite trying very hard I have not one been able to find a successful defense of it made by the rare few of the assertions proponents who will actually debate the assertion). Then he seems to want an eventual rapprochement with the West, that combined with the parroting of the West's power structures' propaganda makes me wonder if he is, or seeks to be, in league with those Western power structures as the corrupt neo-feudal structures he espouses and would wish to develop would like a Western partner and I suspect would fear those Western power structures losing their grip, because if they do there's a chance it would decentralize and re-democratize, and that may threaten their desired model as would create a globally highly conspicuous alternative that was working with developing nations...
"Fears are being virtualized." That sentence struck me, as I've wondered whether the bizarre lack of fear of nuclear war comes from the fact that in the experience of most living Western generations, war is a movie.
Of course, Karaganov's concerns about consumption, profit, environmental destruction, inequality, and his approval of austerity (viewed as a shift from madly material to more spiritual satisfactions) will be read on the right as "commie," confiscatory, equity-enforcing, "you will own nothing and you will be happy"–ism. (Of course, there will always, always be an oligarchy exempt from those austerities, be it capitalist or communist.) And his social conservatism will be read on the left (accurately) as anti-gay, patriarchal, pronatalist woman-in-her-proper-place-ism.
I was wondering where you got this information about Karaganov's "patriarchal, pronatalist woman-in-her-proper-place-ism." I not trying to argue your point, just wish to learn about your sources. I am not familiar with Karaganov's output but even a brief perusal of his interviews (in Russian) suggest nothing of the sort. His only child is a female and a lawyer. He sounds like a typical Russian-(formerly Soviet) intellectual: a historian, educated erudite, pro-women's rights, etc. He doesn't like the highly controvertial identity politics? Well, most people who are interested in Labour movement do not either; they see it as toxic and anti-class struggle. In the Soviet-Russian urban centers, girls have always had equal access to higher education and professions---obviously not as equal to the higher levels of power as men. Still, look who is (highly successfully) managing Russia's ginormous financial system? A woman. Sometimes I wonder who is more of a Russophobe, the brainwashed folks on the "left" or the clowns on the right? Americans, in general, are so parochial that one could hardly choose.
True I may be unfair to Karaganov here. I need to read his own words directly and will when I have time. But generally, Putin's inner circle, such as Dugin, are socially conservative and traditionalist, which means restoring the traditional structure of the family. The pendulum swings too far in one direction and then swings too far back. Apart from the more complicated question of women's and men's roles: gay people have always existed and always will; you could argue that it is a natural minority orientation. Gay marriage was a brilliant solution: domesticate homosexuality, like heterosexuality, to the extent possible (sex can never be totally domesticated, but to the extent that it can be it stabilizes society). But conservative Christianity is obsessed with the sinfulness of homosexuality and will undo the positive changes made in that respect.
Annie, what do we know about Putin’s ”inner circle”? Nothing. Besides the racist American spin. “Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country”—right? Who said that the religious nut like Dugin is Putin’s pal? Has he ever quoted him? No, he quotes great thinkers. Has he ever denounced gays? No. Sure he creates the optics of being a Christian, crosses himself, takes 'holy baths'---it's all political theater. He also bends over double to be Muslim-friendly.
Russians have been atheists for over a century now; and they actually *do educate their kids at school. Many Soviet socialist policies are still intact, taking care of the “masses.” In the countryside, traditional old polytheistic rituals and holidays are often observed (the Old Mother-Raw-Earth religion was gay-friendly like all the native European religions the Roman empire/Church had destroyed). In fact, America is the only western country where educated ppl still practice the Abrahamic faiths—as bizarre as it is. A backward village masquerading as a great civilization, that what America is.
Don’t fall for the tired old Russophobia, sis, it’s toxic. It’s especially bad when Jews repeat it. We should readily recognize racism in its ugly face.
Certainly our Evangelicals and formerly new-age, newly right-wing newly baptized Christians welcome what THEY perceive as Russia's deep Orthodox Christian social conservatism. Are they wrong? Christian social conservatism seems to be a broad streak in the authoritarianism sweeping the world, and Putin is perceived as a leader of that somewhat reactionary traditionalism ("we need a correction, we're going to get an overcorrection"). So however sincere his Christianity is, it's certainly strategic. ... I am quite far from a Russophobe; in fact, in one of those bizarre turnabouts happening all the time now, I'm being accused on X by a leftist of being a Russo(Putin)PHILE for being impressed by this Russian sanity shared by Thomas Fazi https://www.thomasfazi.com/p/inside-the-russian-mind (two parts, do read both). Despite that, I have reservations (as what I call a post-Jew) about the resurgence of Christianity, which I think you may be underestimating.
Anne, I do not share your fears of the resurgence of Christianity, it's been 18 centuries and, presently, it is in accelerating decline. Definitely not resurging in Eurasia. It is hard for a westerner to understand the "Russian mind," as if there were such a thing in this vast country, by reading the various political texts. It is definitely very difficult for an American to appreciate how deeply, intensely Europhilic Russian have always been.
Not even mentioning the historical fact of how profoundly different the Orthodox branch of it is---historically and in essence---from its Roman and Protestant relations. It weren't the Orthodox who were inciting and committing the pogroms in central/eastern Europe (1920-40); those were literally driven by the intense antisemitic propaganda of the catholic priests (and utter poverty), while the Polish state was trying to combat them, btw. There had not been any shtetels in the *actual Russia up to WWII; Russians in the countryside didn't know how Jews looked like until then.
I have (besides my "Russian mind" and love for this country) a very different perspective on this whole thing. The history is driven by the *material conditions that engender the political and military events, not so much by the ideologies or religions cults. For centuries, the western Europeans have been salivating to get their hands on the Russian Empire's riches. Since they lost their colonies, their desires have become maddening.
I think historian Gerard Horne put it just perfectly regarding those material conditions: “. . . a glance at the map reveals that the largest territory on the European continent is that of Russia. And if you look at the natural resources of Europe, they are disproportionately sided on the Russian soil. While western Europe was GETTING FAT from the plundering and pillaging of the Americas and Africa, and the African slave trade, Russia was moving eastward. . . . Thus, Western Europe was becoming a global power at the same time that it did not necessarily rule its home continent.” That's the marxist perspective I share. Everything else is crap. . . . hahaha
No one would care about gays if the whole LGBTQ movement was not promoted by Americans and associated with opposition. I don't think it is controversial or homophobic to say that these people often are alienated and are easy pray for foreign propaganda.
America under the Democrats fetishized and prioritized what was perceived as the most marginalized. It was virtue signaling by the elite and did those groups no good.
Hi Thomas, I am translating your text to Norwegian for Steigan. Point number seven seem to be missing?
Greetings from Kari
Hey Kari! Shit I hadn't noticed that. Must have slipped through the cracks.. :)
Kari, the second part of Thomas’s article listed a brief summary of the missing seventh point:
7. Global power redistribution: Karaganov highlights the significant shift in global power from the West to rising nations, particularly Russia and China, as one of the major sources of international tension. This shift is causing geopolitical instability and redefining international relations, as the West grapples with losing its long-standing hegemony.
Here is the link to Part 2:
https://www.thomasfazi.com/p/russias-strategic-outlook-hastening
Excellent piece which makes total sense. Russian voices are so much more sane and considered than the impulsive and dangerously infantile thinking of Western leaders especially our American cousins. Arrogance and impunity are the biggest threat to peace and Western leaders almost without exception have these in abundance.
Great line where you highlight that Russians are the “adults in the room”
Interesting! I didn't know he had previously been a part of the Trilateral Commission, that makes a lot of sense. And its interesting that he parroted the propaganda of the West's corrupt power structures when he wrote "it also indicates a loss of interest in peaceful and stable development" (the global economic paradigm he's referring to has demonstrably suppressed development in most places) and then when he wrote that the West is "retreating into neo-isolationism" (this is highly likely to be a parroting of current Western power structures assertion that pre WW2 the USA was isolationist, but that does not withstand serious scrutiny and despite trying very hard I have not one been able to find a successful defense of it made by the rare few of the assertions proponents who will actually debate the assertion). Then he seems to want an eventual rapprochement with the West, that combined with the parroting of the West's power structures' propaganda makes me wonder if he is, or seeks to be, in league with those Western power structures as the corrupt neo-feudal structures he espouses and would wish to develop would like a Western partner and I suspect would fear those Western power structures losing their grip, because if they do there's a chance it would decentralize and re-democratize, and that may threaten their desired model as would create a globally highly conspicuous alternative that was working with developing nations...
"Fears are being virtualized." That sentence struck me, as I've wondered whether the bizarre lack of fear of nuclear war comes from the fact that in the experience of most living Western generations, war is a movie.
Of course, Karaganov's concerns about consumption, profit, environmental destruction, inequality, and his approval of austerity (viewed as a shift from madly material to more spiritual satisfactions) will be read on the right as "commie," confiscatory, equity-enforcing, "you will own nothing and you will be happy"–ism. (Of course, there will always, always be an oligarchy exempt from those austerities, be it capitalist or communist.) And his social conservatism will be read on the left (accurately) as anti-gay, patriarchal, pronatalist woman-in-her-proper-place-ism.
Hopefully only by a minority
I was wondering where you got this information about Karaganov's "patriarchal, pronatalist woman-in-her-proper-place-ism." I not trying to argue your point, just wish to learn about your sources. I am not familiar with Karaganov's output but even a brief perusal of his interviews (in Russian) suggest nothing of the sort. His only child is a female and a lawyer. He sounds like a typical Russian-(formerly Soviet) intellectual: a historian, educated erudite, pro-women's rights, etc. He doesn't like the highly controvertial identity politics? Well, most people who are interested in Labour movement do not either; they see it as toxic and anti-class struggle. In the Soviet-Russian urban centers, girls have always had equal access to higher education and professions---obviously not as equal to the higher levels of power as men. Still, look who is (highly successfully) managing Russia's ginormous financial system? A woman. Sometimes I wonder who is more of a Russophobe, the brainwashed folks on the "left" or the clowns on the right? Americans, in general, are so parochial that one could hardly choose.
True I may be unfair to Karaganov here. I need to read his own words directly and will when I have time. But generally, Putin's inner circle, such as Dugin, are socially conservative and traditionalist, which means restoring the traditional structure of the family. The pendulum swings too far in one direction and then swings too far back. Apart from the more complicated question of women's and men's roles: gay people have always existed and always will; you could argue that it is a natural minority orientation. Gay marriage was a brilliant solution: domesticate homosexuality, like heterosexuality, to the extent possible (sex can never be totally domesticated, but to the extent that it can be it stabilizes society). But conservative Christianity is obsessed with the sinfulness of homosexuality and will undo the positive changes made in that respect.
Annie, what do we know about Putin’s ”inner circle”? Nothing. Besides the racist American spin. “Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country”—right? Who said that the religious nut like Dugin is Putin’s pal? Has he ever quoted him? No, he quotes great thinkers. Has he ever denounced gays? No. Sure he creates the optics of being a Christian, crosses himself, takes 'holy baths'---it's all political theater. He also bends over double to be Muslim-friendly.
Russians have been atheists for over a century now; and they actually *do educate their kids at school. Many Soviet socialist policies are still intact, taking care of the “masses.” In the countryside, traditional old polytheistic rituals and holidays are often observed (the Old Mother-Raw-Earth religion was gay-friendly like all the native European religions the Roman empire/Church had destroyed). In fact, America is the only western country where educated ppl still practice the Abrahamic faiths—as bizarre as it is. A backward village masquerading as a great civilization, that what America is.
Don’t fall for the tired old Russophobia, sis, it’s toxic. It’s especially bad when Jews repeat it. We should readily recognize racism in its ugly face.
You gotta change your news source. :)
Certainly our Evangelicals and formerly new-age, newly right-wing newly baptized Christians welcome what THEY perceive as Russia's deep Orthodox Christian social conservatism. Are they wrong? Christian social conservatism seems to be a broad streak in the authoritarianism sweeping the world, and Putin is perceived as a leader of that somewhat reactionary traditionalism ("we need a correction, we're going to get an overcorrection"). So however sincere his Christianity is, it's certainly strategic. ... I am quite far from a Russophobe; in fact, in one of those bizarre turnabouts happening all the time now, I'm being accused on X by a leftist of being a Russo(Putin)PHILE for being impressed by this Russian sanity shared by Thomas Fazi https://www.thomasfazi.com/p/inside-the-russian-mind (two parts, do read both). Despite that, I have reservations (as what I call a post-Jew) about the resurgence of Christianity, which I think you may be underestimating.
Glad you are not a Russophobe, great!
Anne, I do not share your fears of the resurgence of Christianity, it's been 18 centuries and, presently, it is in accelerating decline. Definitely not resurging in Eurasia. It is hard for a westerner to understand the "Russian mind," as if there were such a thing in this vast country, by reading the various political texts. It is definitely very difficult for an American to appreciate how deeply, intensely Europhilic Russian have always been.
Not even mentioning the historical fact of how profoundly different the Orthodox branch of it is---historically and in essence---from its Roman and Protestant relations. It weren't the Orthodox who were inciting and committing the pogroms in central/eastern Europe (1920-40); those were literally driven by the intense antisemitic propaganda of the catholic priests (and utter poverty), while the Polish state was trying to combat them, btw. There had not been any shtetels in the *actual Russia up to WWII; Russians in the countryside didn't know how Jews looked like until then.
I have (besides my "Russian mind" and love for this country) a very different perspective on this whole thing. The history is driven by the *material conditions that engender the political and military events, not so much by the ideologies or religions cults. For centuries, the western Europeans have been salivating to get their hands on the Russian Empire's riches. Since they lost their colonies, their desires have become maddening.
I think historian Gerard Horne put it just perfectly regarding those material conditions: “. . . a glance at the map reveals that the largest territory on the European continent is that of Russia. And if you look at the natural resources of Europe, they are disproportionately sided on the Russian soil. While western Europe was GETTING FAT from the plundering and pillaging of the Americas and Africa, and the African slave trade, Russia was moving eastward. . . . Thus, Western Europe was becoming a global power at the same time that it did not necessarily rule its home continent.” That's the marxist perspective I share. Everything else is crap. . . . hahaha
No one would care about gays if the whole LGBTQ movement was not promoted by Americans and associated with opposition. I don't think it is controversial or homophobic to say that these people often are alienated and are easy pray for foreign propaganda.
America under the Democrats fetishized and prioritized what was perceived as the most marginalized. It was virtue signaling by the elite and did those groups no good.