They are words with a high detoxification value. Spread it among the indoctrinated. Think about what Milan Kundera or Václav Havel would say to Orbán's speech.
Czechs are the conformists, first and foremost. They will drink beer, eat their pork rulétes in sour cream, gossip, and do whatever boss tells them to do.
Thank you, Thomas. This is really interesting speech — in essence, it seems to me, Orban is saying that Central Europe’s mind set is Westphalian. I wish it is true. We will see. I am afraid that the empty neoliberal ideas have infected/pervaded that space too.
I like almost all aspects of Orban's foreign policy stance except its full throtle support of Israel after Oct 7. In fact it intervened at ICJ on behalf of Israel on the issue of the legal implications of Israel's occupation of West Bank and Gaza and its actions there. I found Hungary's arguments totally unconvincing, totally different from this speach...
I have listend to the verbal arguments presented to ICJ on both issues presented there (genocide case brought by SA and the legal implications of occupations opinion requested by UNGA), almost all against Israel.
Israeli historians accept and recognize the fact that even before the recognition of the Israel as a state, the settlers planned the ethnic cleansing of the existing population. Which has relentlesly continued unabated until today, when it accelerated.
Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem (Israeli) have provided ample legal and factual evidence of the apartheid nature of the Israeli state (within its recognized borders, and in the occupied territories).
A country that bases its politcies on murder and assassinations is not deserving of consideration. It is one thing to hunt Nazi perpetrators of genocide and a totally different thing to kill everyone that is a voice in establishing rights for the dispossessed Palestinian population. If you cannot see the difference, the onus is on you, not on the rest of the world to humor you.
People like you and the majority of Israelis are behaving like the transgender women, wanting the rest of the people to treat them as they are women, when it is clear they are not.
Sniper shooting little kids for practice and fun is not ok. Germans resorted to gas chambers manned by prisoners because their own people were having problems with mass killing of women and children. It seems Israeli Defense Forces doesn't have such issues.
Rigidness and referencing only leftist positions, leftist political watchdog bodies and one sided vilification of Israel makes for a strange position considering the atrocities witnessed by the entire WORLD on Saturday, October 7, 2023.
And trans women and Nazi’s??? BIZARRE.
Sadly, your reference to murder and assassination as Israeli “policy” is a perverted twist. The country was invaded and the CIVILIANS ie men, woman, children, murdered.
Just start there.
Oct. 7 cannot be justified. If you think it can, then your positions would all make sense.
The country was not invaded. Israel was helding captive all Gaza, with full control of all its exits, and holding thousands of Palestinians, including women and children in prison, without any convictions, as in fact hostages. Oct & was a prison break gone overboard because nobody suspected to be that succesfull. As for the killings, about 300-400 were military, and at least 100 were killed by the IDF themselves - "let no one return to Gaza!"
As an occupier force, Israel has lost the legal argument for the "right of self defense" long time ago.
ICJ is not a leftist source. As for the Zionist argument that Israel is their historical land, it doesn't stand scrutiny. Jews had control over portions of the land for maybe 1,000 years at most. Muslims, had control over that area for longer than that, from 635 Ad to 1918 AD, with about 150 years hiatus. And Jews took that land from others, killing and murdering in the process. Same as now - that is the "right wing" source for you, and it also fails.
My comparrisons are not bizzare, but perfectly in sync with the times and realities.
Your comparisons and perfect, but taboos are something people who seek to impress or repress, learn well, it keeps them popular with a majority, which makes them secure.
Here's a for instance, of something that is also factually undeniable but taboo.
I totally agree with your characterization of Hamas and its legitimacy etc. But if I disagree with their decision to follow Sinwar into hell, I am chastised and blocked here. I wondered at the time what Haniyeh’s position was. Having a right doesn't make exercising it wise. Again, Hamas was in the right and responsibility for this hell goes to Israel and US, but Hamas’ leaders were wrong and stupid when they foolishly went so far into something they couldn't control or predict.
Yes, Oct. 7 cannot be justified. The Hamas soldiers only killed a few Israeli criminals and left the rest of them thriving on the occupied land. There is no such thing as an innocent Israeli.
I guess, it is hard for you to imagine how MANY Jews like me feel this way about you. Do GO AWAY and KEEP QUIET until the judge asks you to speak.
Very interesting, thanks for posting this, Thomas! Orbán has very clearly been reading Emmanuel Todd’s recent book ‘La défaite de l’occident’ (The defeat of the West), many of whose themes are echoed in the speech. Well worth a read!
The best European head of state I guess, but his definitions vary from my understanding of the words. I'm a Corbynista who voted for Melanchon, twice over now. As such I don't regard the cabal that is running Europe as a "left-wing elite". I'm centre left and they are way over the horizon to the right of me. As to "elite", it depends what you mean by the word. It usually means "the best" (although there are secondary meanings, which could apply) and that meaning in no way applies to Frau Genocide. I think it is more accurate to say that a centrist cabal is running Europe, although it wouldn't be unfair to call them an unelected Mafia is running the show (C.O.D. "Mafia 1. an organized international body of criminals"). And that certainly ain't left wing, Victor.
They are center-right, for sure. Imperialist. Serving the Ruling Class. :)))
Orban is right-wing, and quite a demagogue too. There is no Left in eastern Europe, the former Soviet Camp, the Bolsheviks made sure of that. So, for Orban, anyone to the left of Hitler is 'Left.' But the enemy of our enemy is our friend--right?
The “diversity” we pursue is only preserved in a world of nations. Globalism is the enemy of diversity: it dilutes and destroys - in a generation - the diverse cultures which have evolved over 10,000 years. Viktor Orbán brilliantly expresses the morality of Brexit in language that was unthinkable 10 years ago, the love of nation cultures that dared not speak its name.
I’m British. In the UK we have 4 “home nations” and a number of dependencies, each with its own home culture and languages/dialects, each with its own assembly, with occasional referendums on full independence. Hard for you to understand, obviously.
That’s true, as a continental European, I don’t know all the structural and historical intricacies of your island nation.
However, I do understand that Orban’s struggle with the authoritarian EU and the language of this struggle—as in using the term “globalist” instead of imperialist—is a Right wing position. The Right’s objection to the neoliberal capitalist policies by painting them in not so brilliant language of objection to “diversity” is a dangerous demagoguery that’s openly flirts with the old fashioned Nazi propaganda.
". . .the love of nation cultures." Right. But ask Orban privately, how he feels about the Romanians, Jews, Turks, and Roma living for generations in his country. You will be surprized.
How do you “preserve” individual cultures within a nation state? The state destroys them; it homogenizes all smaller cultures in the name of the ruling majority; it enforces the common language through schooling and other oppressive methods—that’s the state’s main function. It memory-holes and revisions history, it propagandizes, it politically marginalizes minorities. And these are all non-violent forms—but then, there are more gory methods of state control, of course. A nazi regime could take control and tell you you are Orgs and can no longer speak your language or pray in your own churches.
You are an American, aren’t you? It’s hard for you to understand how the Old World works. Study European history. It’s just one long horror show.
Check out, for example, how Hungarians (Madyars) and Romanians struggle with each other in Romania now. I don’t know how they are managing their historical woes in Hungary, probably the same old mess. Central Europe and the Balkans are extremely multiethnic while NO ONE is willing to forget their real or imaginary historic grievances. Plus, the mountains so rich in mineral treasures. When economic strife hits—it’s a ‘powder keg.’
Orban’s speech, his vision statement, is out of focus. If all of the divisions described by Orban - East vs. West, nation state vs. EU, Russia vs. Ukraine, US vs. Russia, US vs China, etc. - are understood as subdivisions or categories of class struggle, it becomes clear that Orban isn’t interested so much in preserving the Hungarian people’s way of life as he is in safeguarding Hungary’s capitalist class hold on power. In this light, let us reconsider the vision Orban has layed out.
Orban isn’t wrong about the threat posed by the globalist agenda. It is indeed an attack on people everywhere. Due to low wages and physical threats, workers are forced to leave their homes while workers elsewhere are forced to open up their homes. Refugees, migrants, the communities hosting them, they’re all working class people. If it’s generally understood that having all these people move about from place to place is bad, why does it happen? It happens because the world is governed by capitalist logic.
Orban didn’t mention the profit motive when he described the logic of the West. Doesn’t this strike you as odd, given the emphasis he places on logic in his speech? An analysis of one’s logic must include one’s goals, wouldn’t you agree? Isn’t the reason for the West wanting globalism important to know? Of course it is, but putting profits ahead of people is not Orban’s goal. The aim of national leaders like Orban and Trump is to safeguard national sovereignty for the sake of protecting one group of capitalists from another group, a globalist camp vs. a nationalist camp. What workers of every nation must understand is that while the capitalists fight over turf, workers of every nation pay for it with their labor and lives.
An international of workers, as opposed to capital’s globalist agenda, would put people before profits. Do you value the uniqueness of your culture and wish to maintain it? Then fight for workers everywhere so that they can earn a living wage and feel safe and secure at home.
This approach makes so much more sense than continuing to participate in some variation of the capitalist system, forever trapped in some category of class struggle, be it civil war, as happened in the US, or in wars between nations, like the world wars, or in cold wars, such as was fought between the US and USSR, and now the US and China, or in financial wars, like those the World Bank and the IMF wage. In every case, it is class struggling against class.
In what way is Orban’s speech the most important? I don’t see anything new in it. A reworking of old ideas made to sound visionary, relying mostly on fear of the other for emotional impact. It looks backward to an idealized past for a map to the future. It’s classic reactionary stuff. BUT it arises from a sense that something isn’t right in the world. A contradiction is heading us toward crisis. Orban senses it and this speech lays out his idea for what comes next. If what Milton Friedman said about taking up the ideas laying about us at times of crisis is true, let’s hope there are better ideas than Orban’s.
Orban is a right-wing politician serving the same Ruling Class as everyone else. Why would he talk about the Class Struggle?
However, since the Left is dead, and the Right has adopted some of their agenda and terminology, what are the working class people to do? BTW, globalist is a right-wing neologism which really means either imperial or neoliberal. we should stick with imperial, I think.
Orbàn is the bearer of his truths but, as often happens, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. However, there are some factual elements that make up the picture of the reality in which we live these days which we can identify as an era of transition full of challenges that we've never faced before: 1) for the first time more than eight billion human beings populate the planet; 2) the level of technology that we have reached has allowed us to overcome obstacles in just a few decades that were insurmountable for about ten thousand years, but we have also created systems that are complex and difficult to manage; 3) the structure of our brain and our behaviors are substantially the same as our ancestors, we now know this but our education systems have not adapted to the two previous conditions. However, I agree with the spirit of the speech which seems to me to be informed by many real and common sense arguments. And Italy could and should take on a more important role than just a US vassal by following Hungary's example.
The United States had, at least what appeared to be, an assassination attempt against the leading candidate of the coming elections yet they chose to do nothing about it also. So it is more like the hyper vassalization of the west. What this tells us is only a crisis will awaken us from our stupor.
I'm going to read the full speech later. I live in Hungary (but am from the U.K) and I've actually been asked by English friends if I live in a dictatorship. Viktor Orbán has been so effectively smeared by western media that most of my friends in the U.K and Germany have an extremely negative opinion of him, and Hungary, despite never having visited the country. Yes, there are things which could be improved (like anywhere) However, it's safe, secure and there's a high level of trust and social cohesion. But Hungary doesn't toe the line on woke issues, plus it's a patriotic nation, which is verboten these days. So it will continue to be in the EU's bad books, despite being one of the safest and nicest places to live and raise a family.
And the key is ‘financial independence’ as Mr Orban says. The only country I know of that is actually achieving financial independence from the US dollar and the global banking cartel is mighty El Salvador. How? BTC.
A very solid recap of a very powerful speech. Thank you for your work sharing his words. God bless.
his explanation of the euro sickness was very clarifying and refreshing
At least someone appears to be thinking
They are words with a high detoxification value. Spread it among the indoctrinated. Think about what Milan Kundera or Václav Havel would say to Orbán's speech.
Czechs are the conformists, first and foremost. They will drink beer, eat their pork rulétes in sour cream, gossip, and do whatever boss tells them to do.
Václav Havel was a conformist?
How many Czechs are there? While you’re looking up, think of masses vs. individuals, statistics vs. outliers.
Thank you, Thomas. This is really interesting speech — in essence, it seems to me, Orban is saying that Central Europe’s mind set is Westphalian. I wish it is true. We will see. I am afraid that the empty neoliberal ideas have infected/pervaded that space too.
I like almost all aspects of Orban's foreign policy stance except its full throtle support of Israel after Oct 7. In fact it intervened at ICJ on behalf of Israel on the issue of the legal implications of Israel's occupation of West Bank and Gaza and its actions there. I found Hungary's arguments totally unconvincing, totally different from this speach...
Agreed.
In all sincerity, support of the ICJ and its injunction against IDF and Netanyahu after Oct 7 is unconscionable. Sad that Frazi agreed w you.
Lack of discernment and siding w terrorists…Frazi could do better. I hope you can to.
I have listend to the verbal arguments presented to ICJ on both issues presented there (genocide case brought by SA and the legal implications of occupations opinion requested by UNGA), almost all against Israel.
Israeli historians accept and recognize the fact that even before the recognition of the Israel as a state, the settlers planned the ethnic cleansing of the existing population. Which has relentlesly continued unabated until today, when it accelerated.
Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem (Israeli) have provided ample legal and factual evidence of the apartheid nature of the Israeli state (within its recognized borders, and in the occupied territories).
A country that bases its politcies on murder and assassinations is not deserving of consideration. It is one thing to hunt Nazi perpetrators of genocide and a totally different thing to kill everyone that is a voice in establishing rights for the dispossessed Palestinian population. If you cannot see the difference, the onus is on you, not on the rest of the world to humor you.
People like you and the majority of Israelis are behaving like the transgender women, wanting the rest of the people to treat them as they are women, when it is clear they are not.
Sniper shooting little kids for practice and fun is not ok. Germans resorted to gas chambers manned by prisoners because their own people were having problems with mass killing of women and children. It seems Israeli Defense Forces doesn't have such issues.
Rigidness and referencing only leftist positions, leftist political watchdog bodies and one sided vilification of Israel makes for a strange position considering the atrocities witnessed by the entire WORLD on Saturday, October 7, 2023.
And trans women and Nazi’s??? BIZARRE.
Sadly, your reference to murder and assassination as Israeli “policy” is a perverted twist. The country was invaded and the CIVILIANS ie men, woman, children, murdered.
Just start there.
Oct. 7 cannot be justified. If you think it can, then your positions would all make sense.
The country was not invaded. Israel was helding captive all Gaza, with full control of all its exits, and holding thousands of Palestinians, including women and children in prison, without any convictions, as in fact hostages. Oct & was a prison break gone overboard because nobody suspected to be that succesfull. As for the killings, about 300-400 were military, and at least 100 were killed by the IDF themselves - "let no one return to Gaza!"
As an occupier force, Israel has lost the legal argument for the "right of self defense" long time ago.
ICJ is not a leftist source. As for the Zionist argument that Israel is their historical land, it doesn't stand scrutiny. Jews had control over portions of the land for maybe 1,000 years at most. Muslims, had control over that area for longer than that, from 635 Ad to 1918 AD, with about 150 years hiatus. And Jews took that land from others, killing and murdering in the process. Same as now - that is the "right wing" source for you, and it also fails.
My comparrisons are not bizzare, but perfectly in sync with the times and realities.
Your comparisons and perfect, but taboos are something people who seek to impress or repress, learn well, it keeps them popular with a majority, which makes them secure.
Here's a for instance, of something that is also factually undeniable but taboo.
I totally agree with your characterization of Hamas and its legitimacy etc. But if I disagree with their decision to follow Sinwar into hell, I am chastised and blocked here. I wondered at the time what Haniyeh’s position was. Having a right doesn't make exercising it wise. Again, Hamas was in the right and responsibility for this hell goes to Israel and US, but Hamas’ leaders were wrong and stupid when they foolishly went so far into something they couldn't control or predict.
STOP saying that Israelis are Jews!!! They are not! They are organised bandits from Odessa and Brooklyn. The multiethnic mafiosi.
Bizarre.
Wierd.
Yes, Oct. 7 cannot be justified. The Hamas soldiers only killed a few Israeli criminals and left the rest of them thriving on the occupied land. There is no such thing as an innocent Israeli.
I guess, it is hard for you to imagine how MANY Jews like me feel this way about you. Do GO AWAY and KEEP QUIET until the judge asks you to speak.
Don't be ridiculous. There's a genocide going on.
It’s really sad to see people so ready to hold up genocide simply because Israel and American do it.
Do go away. Stop talking. The whole world hates you. Netanyahu must be dragged chained in a cage across the world for all children to see.
Very interesting, thanks for posting this, Thomas! Orbán has very clearly been reading Emmanuel Todd’s recent book ‘La défaite de l’occident’ (The defeat of the West), many of whose themes are echoed in the speech. Well worth a read!
The best European head of state I guess, but his definitions vary from my understanding of the words. I'm a Corbynista who voted for Melanchon, twice over now. As such I don't regard the cabal that is running Europe as a "left-wing elite". I'm centre left and they are way over the horizon to the right of me. As to "elite", it depends what you mean by the word. It usually means "the best" (although there are secondary meanings, which could apply) and that meaning in no way applies to Frau Genocide. I think it is more accurate to say that a centrist cabal is running Europe, although it wouldn't be unfair to call them an unelected Mafia is running the show (C.O.D. "Mafia 1. an organized international body of criminals"). And that certainly ain't left wing, Victor.
They are center-right, for sure. Imperialist. Serving the Ruling Class. :)))
Orban is right-wing, and quite a demagogue too. There is no Left in eastern Europe, the former Soviet Camp, the Bolsheviks made sure of that. So, for Orban, anyone to the left of Hitler is 'Left.' But the enemy of our enemy is our friend--right?
The “diversity” we pursue is only preserved in a world of nations. Globalism is the enemy of diversity: it dilutes and destroys - in a generation - the diverse cultures which have evolved over 10,000 years. Viktor Orbán brilliantly expresses the morality of Brexit in language that was unthinkable 10 years ago, the love of nation cultures that dared not speak its name.
I’m British. In the UK we have 4 “home nations” and a number of dependencies, each with its own home culture and languages/dialects, each with its own assembly, with occasional referendums on full independence. Hard for you to understand, obviously.
That’s true, as a continental European, I don’t know all the structural and historical intricacies of your island nation.
However, I do understand that Orban’s struggle with the authoritarian EU and the language of this struggle—as in using the term “globalist” instead of imperialist—is a Right wing position. The Right’s objection to the neoliberal capitalist policies by painting them in not so brilliant language of objection to “diversity” is a dangerous demagoguery that’s openly flirts with the old fashioned Nazi propaganda.
". . .the love of nation cultures." Right. But ask Orban privately, how he feels about the Romanians, Jews, Turks, and Roma living for generations in his country. You will be surprized.
Why? What has that got to do with the broad concept of nation cultures (as individually/separately preserved cultures)?
A broad concept, huh?
How do you “preserve” individual cultures within a nation state? The state destroys them; it homogenizes all smaller cultures in the name of the ruling majority; it enforces the common language through schooling and other oppressive methods—that’s the state’s main function. It memory-holes and revisions history, it propagandizes, it politically marginalizes minorities. And these are all non-violent forms—but then, there are more gory methods of state control, of course. A nazi regime could take control and tell you you are Orgs and can no longer speak your language or pray in your own churches.
You are an American, aren’t you? It’s hard for you to understand how the Old World works. Study European history. It’s just one long horror show.
Check out, for example, how Hungarians (Madyars) and Romanians struggle with each other in Romania now. I don’t know how they are managing their historical woes in Hungary, probably the same old mess. Central Europe and the Balkans are extremely multiethnic while NO ONE is willing to forget their real or imaginary historic grievances. Plus, the mountains so rich in mineral treasures. When economic strife hits—it’s a ‘powder keg.’
Orban’s speech, his vision statement, is out of focus. If all of the divisions described by Orban - East vs. West, nation state vs. EU, Russia vs. Ukraine, US vs. Russia, US vs China, etc. - are understood as subdivisions or categories of class struggle, it becomes clear that Orban isn’t interested so much in preserving the Hungarian people’s way of life as he is in safeguarding Hungary’s capitalist class hold on power. In this light, let us reconsider the vision Orban has layed out.
Orban isn’t wrong about the threat posed by the globalist agenda. It is indeed an attack on people everywhere. Due to low wages and physical threats, workers are forced to leave their homes while workers elsewhere are forced to open up their homes. Refugees, migrants, the communities hosting them, they’re all working class people. If it’s generally understood that having all these people move about from place to place is bad, why does it happen? It happens because the world is governed by capitalist logic.
Orban didn’t mention the profit motive when he described the logic of the West. Doesn’t this strike you as odd, given the emphasis he places on logic in his speech? An analysis of one’s logic must include one’s goals, wouldn’t you agree? Isn’t the reason for the West wanting globalism important to know? Of course it is, but putting profits ahead of people is not Orban’s goal. The aim of national leaders like Orban and Trump is to safeguard national sovereignty for the sake of protecting one group of capitalists from another group, a globalist camp vs. a nationalist camp. What workers of every nation must understand is that while the capitalists fight over turf, workers of every nation pay for it with their labor and lives.
An international of workers, as opposed to capital’s globalist agenda, would put people before profits. Do you value the uniqueness of your culture and wish to maintain it? Then fight for workers everywhere so that they can earn a living wage and feel safe and secure at home.
This approach makes so much more sense than continuing to participate in some variation of the capitalist system, forever trapped in some category of class struggle, be it civil war, as happened in the US, or in wars between nations, like the world wars, or in cold wars, such as was fought between the US and USSR, and now the US and China, or in financial wars, like those the World Bank and the IMF wage. In every case, it is class struggling against class.
In what way is Orban’s speech the most important? I don’t see anything new in it. A reworking of old ideas made to sound visionary, relying mostly on fear of the other for emotional impact. It looks backward to an idealized past for a map to the future. It’s classic reactionary stuff. BUT it arises from a sense that something isn’t right in the world. A contradiction is heading us toward crisis. Orban senses it and this speech lays out his idea for what comes next. If what Milton Friedman said about taking up the ideas laying about us at times of crisis is true, let’s hope there are better ideas than Orban’s.
Orban is a right-wing politician serving the same Ruling Class as everyone else. Why would he talk about the Class Struggle?
However, since the Left is dead, and the Right has adopted some of their agenda and terminology, what are the working class people to do? BTW, globalist is a right-wing neologism which really means either imperial or neoliberal. we should stick with imperial, I think.
Orbàn is the bearer of his truths but, as often happens, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. However, there are some factual elements that make up the picture of the reality in which we live these days which we can identify as an era of transition full of challenges that we've never faced before: 1) for the first time more than eight billion human beings populate the planet; 2) the level of technology that we have reached has allowed us to overcome obstacles in just a few decades that were insurmountable for about ten thousand years, but we have also created systems that are complex and difficult to manage; 3) the structure of our brain and our behaviors are substantially the same as our ancestors, we now know this but our education systems have not adapted to the two previous conditions. However, I agree with the spirit of the speech which seems to me to be informed by many real and common sense arguments. And Italy could and should take on a more important role than just a US vassal by following Hungary's example.
Religion is the opium of the masses. (Marx).
His opinions are interesting, and quite curious, but any strategy that promotes sky-fairies is ultimately doomed.
He is promoting service to a higher power, God, country, family, not communist bull——.
Your sentence here reads as if taken out of a fascist manifesto—hope, you realise that.
What kind of mindless drivel is that?
Why is that so?
The United States had, at least what appeared to be, an assassination attempt against the leading candidate of the coming elections yet they chose to do nothing about it also. So it is more like the hyper vassalization of the west. What this tells us is only a crisis will awaken us from our stupor.
I spent a month in Budapest in 2022
Were I 21 and not 73 with Grandkids in the Shithole that Labour are turning Britain into, I’d be there now.
I'm going to read the full speech later. I live in Hungary (but am from the U.K) and I've actually been asked by English friends if I live in a dictatorship. Viktor Orbán has been so effectively smeared by western media that most of my friends in the U.K and Germany have an extremely negative opinion of him, and Hungary, despite never having visited the country. Yes, there are things which could be improved (like anywhere) However, it's safe, secure and there's a high level of trust and social cohesion. But Hungary doesn't toe the line on woke issues, plus it's a patriotic nation, which is verboten these days. So it will continue to be in the EU's bad books, despite being one of the safest and nicest places to live and raise a family.
And the key is ‘financial independence’ as Mr Orban says. The only country I know of that is actually achieving financial independence from the US dollar and the global banking cartel is mighty El Salvador. How? BTC.