They are words with a high detoxification value. Spread it among the indoctrinated. Think about what Milan Kundera or Václav Havel would say to Orbán's speech.
Thank you, Thomas. This is really interesting speech — in essence, it seems to me, Orban is saying that Central Europe’s mind set is Westphalian. I wish it is true. We will see. I am afraid that the empty neoliberal ideas have infected/pervaded that space too.
I like almost all aspects of Orban's foreign policy stance except its full throtle support of Israel after Oct 7. In fact it intervened at ICJ on behalf of Israel on the issue of the legal implications of Israel's occupation of West Bank and Gaza and its actions there. I found Hungary's arguments totally unconvincing, totally different from this speach...
I have listend to the verbal arguments presented to ICJ on both issues presented there (genocide case brought by SA and the legal implications of occupations opinion requested by UNGA), almost all against Israel.
Israeli historians accept and recognize the fact that even before the recognition of the Israel as a state, the settlers planned the ethnic cleansing of the existing population. Which has relentlesly continued unabated until today, when it accelerated.
Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem (Israeli) have provided ample legal and factual evidence of the apartheid nature of the Israeli state (within its recognized borders, and in the occupied territories).
A country that bases its politcies on murder and assassinations is not deserving of consideration. It is one thing to hunt Nazi perpetrators of genocide and a totally different thing to kill everyone that is a voice in establishing rights for the dispossessed Palestinian population. If you cannot see the difference, the onus is on you, not on the rest of the world to humor you.
People like you and the majority of Israelis are behaving like the transgender women, wanting the rest of the people to treat them as they are women, when it is clear they are not.
Sniper shooting little kids for practice and fun is not ok. Germans resorted to gas chambers manned by prisoners because their own people were having problems with mass killing of women and children. It seems Israeli Defense Forces doesn't have such issues.
Rigidness and referencing only leftist positions, leftist political watchdog bodies and one sided vilification of Israel makes for a strange position considering the atrocities witnessed by the entire WORLD on Saturday, October 7, 2023.
And trans women and Nazi’s??? BIZARRE.
Sadly, your reference to murder and assassination as Israeli “policy” is a perverted twist. The country was invaded and the CIVILIANS ie men, woman, children, murdered.
Just start there.
Oct. 7 cannot be justified. If you think it can, then your positions would all make sense.
The country was not invaded. Israel was helding captive all Gaza, with full control of all its exits, and holding thousands of Palestinians, including women and children in prison, without any convictions, as in fact hostages. Oct & was a prison break gone overboard because nobody suspected to be that succesfull. As for the killings, about 300-400 were military, and at least 100 were killed by the IDF themselves - "let no one return to Gaza!"
As an occupier force, Israel has lost the legal argument for the "right of self defense" long time ago.
ICJ is not a leftist source. As for the Zionist argument that Israel is their historical land, it doesn't stand scrutiny. Jews had control over portions of the land for maybe 1,000 years at most. Muslims, had control over that area for longer than that, from 635 Ad to 1918 AD, with about 150 years hiatus. And Jews took that land from others, killing and murdering in the process. Same as now - that is the "right wing" source for you, and it also fails.
My comparrisons are not bizzare, but perfectly in sync with the times and realities.
Very interesting, thanks for posting this, Thomas! Orbán has very clearly been reading Emmanuel Todd’s recent book ‘La défaite de l’occident’ (The defeat of the West), many of whose themes are echoed in the speech. Well worth a read!
The best European head of state I guess, but his definitions vary from my understanding of the words. I'm a Corbynista who voted for Melanchon, twice over now. As such I don't regard the cabal that is running Europe as a "left-wing elite". I'm centre left and they are way over the horizon to the right of me. As to "elite", it depends what you mean by the word. It usually means "the best" (although there are secondary meanings, which could apply) and that meaning in no way applies to Frau Genocide. I think it is more accurate to say that a centrist cabal is running Europe, although it wouldn't be unfair to call them an unelected Mafia is running the show (C.O.D. "Mafia 1. an organized international body of criminals"). And that certainly ain't left wing, Victor.
The “diversity” we pursue is only preserved in a world of nations. Globalism is the enemy of diversity: it dilutes and destroys - in a generation - the diverse cultures which have evolved over 10,000 years. Viktor Orbán brilliantly expresses the morality of Brexit in language that was unthinkable 10 years ago, the love of nation cultures that dared not speak its name.
The United States had, at least what appeared to be, an assassination attempt against the leading candidate of the coming elections yet they chose to do nothing about it also. So it is more like the hyper vassalization of the west. What this tells us is only a crisis will awaken us from our stupor.
Orbàn is the bearer of his truths but, as often happens, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. However, there are some factual elements that make up the picture of the reality in which we live these days which we can identify as an era of transition full of challenges that we've never faced before: 1) for the first time more than eight billion human beings populate the planet; 2) the level of technology that we have reached has allowed us to overcome obstacles in just a few decades that were insurmountable for about ten thousand years, but we have also created systems that are complex and difficult to manage; 3) the structure of our brain and our behaviors are substantially the same as our ancestors, we now know this but our education systems have not adapted to the two previous conditions. However, I agree with the spirit of the speech which seems to me to be informed by many real and common sense arguments. And Italy could and should take on a more important role than just a US vassal by following Hungary's example.
Orban’s speech, his vision statement, is out of focus. If all of the divisions described by Orban - East vs. West, nation state vs. EU, Russia vs. Ukraine, US vs. Russia, US vs China, etc. - are understood as subdivisions or categories of class struggle, it becomes clear that Orban isn’t interested so much in preserving the Hungarian people’s way of life as he is in safeguarding Hungary’s capitalist class hold on power. In this light, let us reconsider the vision Orban has layed out.
Orban isn’t wrong about the threat posed by the globalist agenda. It is indeed an attack on people everywhere. Due to low wages and physical threats, workers are forced to leave their homes while workers elsewhere are forced to open up their homes. Refugees, migrants, the communities hosting them, they’re all working class people. If it’s generally understood that having all these people move about from place to place is bad, why does it happen? It happens because the world is governed by capitalist logic.
Orban didn’t mention the profit motive when he described the logic of the West. Doesn’t this strike you as odd, given the emphasis he places on logic in his speech? An analysis of one’s logic must include one’s goals, wouldn’t you agree? Isn’t the reason for the West wanting globalism important to know? Of course it is, but putting profits ahead of people is not Orban’s goal. The aim of national leaders like Orban and Trump is to safeguard national sovereignty for the sake of protecting one group of capitalists from another group, a globalist camp vs. a nationalist camp. What workers of every nation must understand is that while the capitalists fight over turf, workers of every nation pay for it with their labor and lives.
An international of workers, as opposed to capital’s globalist agenda, would put people before profits. Do you value the uniqueness of your culture and wish to maintain it? Then fight for workers everywhere so that they can earn a living wage and feel safe and secure at home.
This approach makes so much more sense than continuing to participate in some variation of the capitalist system, forever trapped in some category of class struggle, be it civil war, as happened in the US, or in wars between nations, like the world wars, or in cold wars, such as was fought between the US and USSR, and now the US and China, or in financial wars, like those the World Bank and the IMF wage. In every case, it is class struggling against class.
In what way is Orban’s speech the most important? I don’t see anything new in it. A reworking of old ideas made to sound visionary, relying mostly on fear of the other for emotional impact. It looks backward to an idealized past for a map to the future. It’s classic reactionary stuff. BUT it arises from a sense that something isn’t right in the world. A contradiction is heading us toward crisis. Orban senses it and this speech lays out his idea for what comes next. If what Milton Friedman said about taking up the ideas laying about us at times of crisis is true, let’s hope there are better ideas than Orban’s.
And the key is ‘financial independence’ as Mr Orban says. The only country I know of that is actually achieving financial independence from the US dollar and the global banking cartel is mighty El Salvador. How? BTC.
A very solid recap of a very powerful speech. Thank you for your work sharing his words. God bless.
his explanation of the euro sickness was very clarifying and refreshing
At least someone appears to be thinking
They are words with a high detoxification value. Spread it among the indoctrinated. Think about what Milan Kundera or Václav Havel would say to Orbán's speech.
Thank you, Thomas. This is really interesting speech — in essence, it seems to me, Orban is saying that Central Europe’s mind set is Westphalian. I wish it is true. We will see. I am afraid that the empty neoliberal ideas have infected/pervaded that space too.
I like almost all aspects of Orban's foreign policy stance except its full throtle support of Israel after Oct 7. In fact it intervened at ICJ on behalf of Israel on the issue of the legal implications of Israel's occupation of West Bank and Gaza and its actions there. I found Hungary's arguments totally unconvincing, totally different from this speach...
Agreed.
In all sincerity, support of the ICJ and its injunction against IDF and Netanyahu after Oct 7 is unconscionable. Sad that Frazi agreed w you.
Lack of discernment and siding w terrorists…Frazi could do better. I hope you can to.
I have listend to the verbal arguments presented to ICJ on both issues presented there (genocide case brought by SA and the legal implications of occupations opinion requested by UNGA), almost all against Israel.
Israeli historians accept and recognize the fact that even before the recognition of the Israel as a state, the settlers planned the ethnic cleansing of the existing population. Which has relentlesly continued unabated until today, when it accelerated.
Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem (Israeli) have provided ample legal and factual evidence of the apartheid nature of the Israeli state (within its recognized borders, and in the occupied territories).
A country that bases its politcies on murder and assassinations is not deserving of consideration. It is one thing to hunt Nazi perpetrators of genocide and a totally different thing to kill everyone that is a voice in establishing rights for the dispossessed Palestinian population. If you cannot see the difference, the onus is on you, not on the rest of the world to humor you.
People like you and the majority of Israelis are behaving like the transgender women, wanting the rest of the people to treat them as they are women, when it is clear they are not.
Sniper shooting little kids for practice and fun is not ok. Germans resorted to gas chambers manned by prisoners because their own people were having problems with mass killing of women and children. It seems Israeli Defense Forces doesn't have such issues.
Rigidness and referencing only leftist positions, leftist political watchdog bodies and one sided vilification of Israel makes for a strange position considering the atrocities witnessed by the entire WORLD on Saturday, October 7, 2023.
And trans women and Nazi’s??? BIZARRE.
Sadly, your reference to murder and assassination as Israeli “policy” is a perverted twist. The country was invaded and the CIVILIANS ie men, woman, children, murdered.
Just start there.
Oct. 7 cannot be justified. If you think it can, then your positions would all make sense.
The country was not invaded. Israel was helding captive all Gaza, with full control of all its exits, and holding thousands of Palestinians, including women and children in prison, without any convictions, as in fact hostages. Oct & was a prison break gone overboard because nobody suspected to be that succesfull. As for the killings, about 300-400 were military, and at least 100 were killed by the IDF themselves - "let no one return to Gaza!"
As an occupier force, Israel has lost the legal argument for the "right of self defense" long time ago.
ICJ is not a leftist source. As for the Zionist argument that Israel is their historical land, it doesn't stand scrutiny. Jews had control over portions of the land for maybe 1,000 years at most. Muslims, had control over that area for longer than that, from 635 Ad to 1918 AD, with about 150 years hiatus. And Jews took that land from others, killing and murdering in the process. Same as now - that is the "right wing" source for you, and it also fails.
My comparrisons are not bizzare, but perfectly in sync with the times and realities.
Bizarre.
Wierd.
Don't be ridiculous. There's a genocide going on.
It’s really sad to see people so ready to hold up genocide simply because Israel and American do it.
Very interesting, thanks for posting this, Thomas! Orbán has very clearly been reading Emmanuel Todd’s recent book ‘La défaite de l’occident’ (The defeat of the West), many of whose themes are echoed in the speech. Well worth a read!
The best European head of state I guess, but his definitions vary from my understanding of the words. I'm a Corbynista who voted for Melanchon, twice over now. As such I don't regard the cabal that is running Europe as a "left-wing elite". I'm centre left and they are way over the horizon to the right of me. As to "elite", it depends what you mean by the word. It usually means "the best" (although there are secondary meanings, which could apply) and that meaning in no way applies to Frau Genocide. I think it is more accurate to say that a centrist cabal is running Europe, although it wouldn't be unfair to call them an unelected Mafia is running the show (C.O.D. "Mafia 1. an organized international body of criminals"). And that certainly ain't left wing, Victor.
The “diversity” we pursue is only preserved in a world of nations. Globalism is the enemy of diversity: it dilutes and destroys - in a generation - the diverse cultures which have evolved over 10,000 years. Viktor Orbán brilliantly expresses the morality of Brexit in language that was unthinkable 10 years ago, the love of nation cultures that dared not speak its name.
Religion is the opium of the masses. (Marx).
His opinions are interesting, and quite curious, but any strategy that promotes sky-fairies is ultimately doomed.
He is promoting service to a higher power, God, country, family, not communist bull——.
Why is that so?
The United States had, at least what appeared to be, an assassination attempt against the leading candidate of the coming elections yet they chose to do nothing about it also. So it is more like the hyper vassalization of the west. What this tells us is only a crisis will awaken us from our stupor.
Orbàn is the bearer of his truths but, as often happens, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. However, there are some factual elements that make up the picture of the reality in which we live these days which we can identify as an era of transition full of challenges that we've never faced before: 1) for the first time more than eight billion human beings populate the planet; 2) the level of technology that we have reached has allowed us to overcome obstacles in just a few decades that were insurmountable for about ten thousand years, but we have also created systems that are complex and difficult to manage; 3) the structure of our brain and our behaviors are substantially the same as our ancestors, we now know this but our education systems have not adapted to the two previous conditions. However, I agree with the spirit of the speech which seems to me to be informed by many real and common sense arguments. And Italy could and should take on a more important role than just a US vassal by following Hungary's example.
I am proud of Hungary. Keep fighting the good fight Hungary.🙏🏻✌️
Orban’s speech, his vision statement, is out of focus. If all of the divisions described by Orban - East vs. West, nation state vs. EU, Russia vs. Ukraine, US vs. Russia, US vs China, etc. - are understood as subdivisions or categories of class struggle, it becomes clear that Orban isn’t interested so much in preserving the Hungarian people’s way of life as he is in safeguarding Hungary’s capitalist class hold on power. In this light, let us reconsider the vision Orban has layed out.
Orban isn’t wrong about the threat posed by the globalist agenda. It is indeed an attack on people everywhere. Due to low wages and physical threats, workers are forced to leave their homes while workers elsewhere are forced to open up their homes. Refugees, migrants, the communities hosting them, they’re all working class people. If it’s generally understood that having all these people move about from place to place is bad, why does it happen? It happens because the world is governed by capitalist logic.
Orban didn’t mention the profit motive when he described the logic of the West. Doesn’t this strike you as odd, given the emphasis he places on logic in his speech? An analysis of one’s logic must include one’s goals, wouldn’t you agree? Isn’t the reason for the West wanting globalism important to know? Of course it is, but putting profits ahead of people is not Orban’s goal. The aim of national leaders like Orban and Trump is to safeguard national sovereignty for the sake of protecting one group of capitalists from another group, a globalist camp vs. a nationalist camp. What workers of every nation must understand is that while the capitalists fight over turf, workers of every nation pay for it with their labor and lives.
An international of workers, as opposed to capital’s globalist agenda, would put people before profits. Do you value the uniqueness of your culture and wish to maintain it? Then fight for workers everywhere so that they can earn a living wage and feel safe and secure at home.
This approach makes so much more sense than continuing to participate in some variation of the capitalist system, forever trapped in some category of class struggle, be it civil war, as happened in the US, or in wars between nations, like the world wars, or in cold wars, such as was fought between the US and USSR, and now the US and China, or in financial wars, like those the World Bank and the IMF wage. In every case, it is class struggling against class.
In what way is Orban’s speech the most important? I don’t see anything new in it. A reworking of old ideas made to sound visionary, relying mostly on fear of the other for emotional impact. It looks backward to an idealized past for a map to the future. It’s classic reactionary stuff. BUT it arises from a sense that something isn’t right in the world. A contradiction is heading us toward crisis. Orban senses it and this speech lays out his idea for what comes next. If what Milton Friedman said about taking up the ideas laying about us at times of crisis is true, let’s hope there are better ideas than Orban’s.
And the key is ‘financial independence’ as Mr Orban says. The only country I know of that is actually achieving financial independence from the US dollar and the global banking cartel is mighty El Salvador. How? BTC.
I have to read this again because a lot of this speech seems to contradict.
I do not agree with a Christian society (what is this)? Does this mean there is NO room for other religions. Very ambiguous.
I see that Orban brought up the Romany: are they the people who are going to work in the fields while Hungary refuses immigrants?
Hmmmmm.
Will write again. It's a lot to take in in one go.